CHAIRMAN MAO
By David Kaiza
Feb 2006
No doubt one of the most outstanding parliamentarians of his time, Gulu Municipality Member of Parliament, Nobert Mao - Museveni and NRM critic, stunned the nation when he declared he was not standing as MP, but would contest the post of Local Council V - district chairman for Gulu Local Government, a considerable demotion. He spoke to David Kaiza about his decision.
DK: What made you decide to run for district chairman?
NM: It is unusual for a very safe seat like mine, but even before my first term, I promised myself and my electorate that I would serve for two terms and run for president. Indeed I ran for president and got 26 percent of the party vote. In a multiparty setting, you have to be disciplined and support the candidate
I had decided not to seek for elected position. But one time, a radio presenter in Gulu opened a talks how and asked whether MP Mao should run for chairman. 98 percent of the callers wanted me to be chairman. They told me the quality of decision-making needed a high calibre leader. There are problems of corruption; challenges of resettlement and challenges of land. They thought someone like me could offer better leadership. I hope my success in Local Government can show that I can be a president. Of course if I fail to run Gulu district well, then I cannot run Uganda.
DK: Is it not a demotion from MP to LCV?
NM: The challenges in Gulu are so much that I wish the Pope could be chairman. Even the Pope would be overwhelmed. In terms of protocol, an MP is more highly placed than a chairman. But I believe that you must go where the problem is. It's about duty.
I am looking at the effect of a 20-year-old war between the (Lords Resistance Army) LRA and the Ugandan government-two uncompromising sides. In Gulu alone, because of this war, we have about half a million displaced people who have been forced into camps for 10 years now. They have no access to water-in fact they are entitled to only one litre of water per day.
The people are malnourished, there are human rights abuses-civilians were raped by the army in Padibe late last year, there were killings recently in Lalogi. Then people have to deal with an informal case of curfew in some camps. Civilians are not allowed to hunt for wild game yet they have no access to food.
We need a leader who can propose new policies to government forcefully. There are many things that Gulu local government can do to handle these challenges. I believe I am a good fundraiser. I will call a donors' conference to raise money to resettle people.
Even with $3,000 per household, this would enable them to buy farming equipment and other basic needs. It is not enough but it would get them started.
DK: What is your assessment of Ugandan politics today?
NM: We have a president who has been exposed as a hypocrite. He can afford to talk peace with the murderous Burundian rebels but cannot do the same with rebels in his own country. He condemns corruption but spends $0.2 million to fly his daughter and daughter in law to deliver in Germany; then he appoints ministers who have been censured by parliament.
He claims to be building a national army but its leadership is from his own ethnic group. The country's economy is floundering. Our capacity to attract investors has declined while Kenya and Tanzania are getting more; unemployment has skyrocketed. The war in the north has been sucking 3 per cent of GDP-we have almost spent $2 billion on it.
And politically, Uganda is now more divided than it has ever been.
DK: Against this background do you think the election will provide an alternative?
NM: This is a test to determine whether Ugandans will ever have confidence in political processes. I doubt the elections will be free and fair. If they are free and fair Ugandans will have the confidence about choosing alternatives.
DK: Is there a possibility that we could become a pariah state once more?
NM: A pariah state means a state decent people do not want to do business with. And I think we are already on the way. Tanzania and Kenya have refused to sign a document for political federation because they think there are uncertainties about Uganda. Donors have cut aid. These are the milestones for pariahdom - if there is such a word. Even our friends, the USA have become weary.
DK: Looking back now, could we have seen things turning out differently?
NM: Conflict is part of political process. That is why if Museveni was a visionary and an architect, he should have built systems.
DK: Is it possible to be a visionary given Uganda's political configuration?
NM: Greed for power is said to be human but no leader in Uganda has ever had what Museveni had. For the first ten years, h was worshipped like a god. Unfortunately, one of his biggest mistakes was to think you could have democracy without parties. The other mistake is this pay-as-go democracy putting every political supporter on a payroll so that public support has collapsed. Politicians are ranked so low; we are ranked alongside pickpockets.
DK: Can this army serve another president?
NM: you have heard Chief of Defence Forces Gen. Aronda Nyakairima. He has been explicitly partisan. And in the last election, Lt. Gen. Katumba Wamala, whom we thought was a disciplined officer, stated that if Kizza Besigye became president he would resign. We have heard Gen. David Tinyefunza threatening a presidential candidate. It is because of this we have concluded that the army is loyal to Museveni rather than Uganda.
DK: What does that mean for politicians like you?
NM: It means that we have a bitter struggle to get there. That struggle involves articulating alternative agenda, explaining the real situation to our friends abroad (who must now be swallowing their words). They touted Museveni as the new breed of African rulers; Africa's beacon of hope.
But we are also bracing ourselves to suffer. Politics is no longer for the faint-hearted.
At the end of the day, nations rise and fall depending on the quality of leadership. Museveni has made some achievements. The level of entrepreneurship has improved. I think his economic policies like allowing for competition - something like making the dollar available to anyone who wanted it - was positive. The first ten years, he was building. The next ten years he was destroying. What was said of Napoleon will be said of Museveni; a man who built and destroyed Uganda in equal measure. He has destroyed our sense of nationhood. He has destroyed our sense of integrity. [O]
Feb 2006
No doubt one of the most outstanding parliamentarians of his time, Gulu Municipality Member of Parliament, Nobert Mao - Museveni and NRM critic, stunned the nation when he declared he was not standing as MP, but would contest the post of Local Council V - district chairman for Gulu Local Government, a considerable demotion. He spoke to David Kaiza about his decision.
DK: What made you decide to run for district chairman?
NM: It is unusual for a very safe seat like mine, but even before my first term, I promised myself and my electorate that I would serve for two terms and run for president. Indeed I ran for president and got 26 percent of the party vote. In a multiparty setting, you have to be disciplined and support the candidate
I had decided not to seek for elected position. But one time, a radio presenter in Gulu opened a talks how and asked whether MP Mao should run for chairman. 98 percent of the callers wanted me to be chairman. They told me the quality of decision-making needed a high calibre leader. There are problems of corruption; challenges of resettlement and challenges of land. They thought someone like me could offer better leadership. I hope my success in Local Government can show that I can be a president. Of course if I fail to run Gulu district well, then I cannot run Uganda.
DK: Is it not a demotion from MP to LCV?
NM: The challenges in Gulu are so much that I wish the Pope could be chairman. Even the Pope would be overwhelmed. In terms of protocol, an MP is more highly placed than a chairman. But I believe that you must go where the problem is. It's about duty.
I am looking at the effect of a 20-year-old war between the (Lords Resistance Army) LRA and the Ugandan government-two uncompromising sides. In Gulu alone, because of this war, we have about half a million displaced people who have been forced into camps for 10 years now. They have no access to water-in fact they are entitled to only one litre of water per day.
The people are malnourished, there are human rights abuses-civilians were raped by the army in Padibe late last year, there were killings recently in Lalogi. Then people have to deal with an informal case of curfew in some camps. Civilians are not allowed to hunt for wild game yet they have no access to food.
We need a leader who can propose new policies to government forcefully. There are many things that Gulu local government can do to handle these challenges. I believe I am a good fundraiser. I will call a donors' conference to raise money to resettle people.
Even with $3,000 per household, this would enable them to buy farming equipment and other basic needs. It is not enough but it would get them started.
DK: What is your assessment of Ugandan politics today?
NM: We have a president who has been exposed as a hypocrite. He can afford to talk peace with the murderous Burundian rebels but cannot do the same with rebels in his own country. He condemns corruption but spends $0.2 million to fly his daughter and daughter in law to deliver in Germany; then he appoints ministers who have been censured by parliament.
He claims to be building a national army but its leadership is from his own ethnic group. The country's economy is floundering. Our capacity to attract investors has declined while Kenya and Tanzania are getting more; unemployment has skyrocketed. The war in the north has been sucking 3 per cent of GDP-we have almost spent $2 billion on it.
And politically, Uganda is now more divided than it has ever been.
DK: Against this background do you think the election will provide an alternative?
NM: This is a test to determine whether Ugandans will ever have confidence in political processes. I doubt the elections will be free and fair. If they are free and fair Ugandans will have the confidence about choosing alternatives.
DK: Is there a possibility that we could become a pariah state once more?
NM: A pariah state means a state decent people do not want to do business with. And I think we are already on the way. Tanzania and Kenya have refused to sign a document for political federation because they think there are uncertainties about Uganda. Donors have cut aid. These are the milestones for pariahdom - if there is such a word. Even our friends, the USA have become weary.
DK: Looking back now, could we have seen things turning out differently?
NM: Conflict is part of political process. That is why if Museveni was a visionary and an architect, he should have built systems.
DK: Is it possible to be a visionary given Uganda's political configuration?
NM: Greed for power is said to be human but no leader in Uganda has ever had what Museveni had. For the first ten years, h was worshipped like a god. Unfortunately, one of his biggest mistakes was to think you could have democracy without parties. The other mistake is this pay-as-go democracy putting every political supporter on a payroll so that public support has collapsed. Politicians are ranked so low; we are ranked alongside pickpockets.
DK: Can this army serve another president?
NM: you have heard Chief of Defence Forces Gen. Aronda Nyakairima. He has been explicitly partisan. And in the last election, Lt. Gen. Katumba Wamala, whom we thought was a disciplined officer, stated that if Kizza Besigye became president he would resign. We have heard Gen. David Tinyefunza threatening a presidential candidate. It is because of this we have concluded that the army is loyal to Museveni rather than Uganda.
DK: What does that mean for politicians like you?
NM: It means that we have a bitter struggle to get there. That struggle involves articulating alternative agenda, explaining the real situation to our friends abroad (who must now be swallowing their words). They touted Museveni as the new breed of African rulers; Africa's beacon of hope.
But we are also bracing ourselves to suffer. Politics is no longer for the faint-hearted.
At the end of the day, nations rise and fall depending on the quality of leadership. Museveni has made some achievements. The level of entrepreneurship has improved. I think his economic policies like allowing for competition - something like making the dollar available to anyone who wanted it - was positive. The first ten years, he was building. The next ten years he was destroying. What was said of Napoleon will be said of Museveni; a man who built and destroyed Uganda in equal measure. He has destroyed our sense of nationhood. He has destroyed our sense of integrity. [O]
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